Max Divergent

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Posts by Max Divergent

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  16

  Blair and the other champaigne socialists

  by Simon in

  1. social
  2. current

  .

  just one of the reasons i despise the man.

  like the rest of the bunch of hypocrites they have abandoned all the ideals that they once claimed to have and are now more than happy to have their nose in the trough.. for all the criticism of thatcher (who transformed the country from the tatters it was left in under labour) they have made things much, much worse in terms of difference between rich and poor.. notice too how labour donators seem to have particularly done well, as has mrs blair - her latest contribution sapping money from local education and giving it to fundamentalist muslims in bogus human rights legalities.. http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=398578&in_page_id=2.

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  Max Divergent

  they have made things much, much worse in terms of difference between rich and poor.

  How would it have been differnet under the other party? Maybe the difference would have increased even more?
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  136

  DA-ing Announcement in the Society's New Book

  by Mark in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the society's new book 'organized to do jehovah's will', to be released in the congregations .

  on the 20th of march, introduces a change in the df and da announcements.

  announcements will read the same: "[name of person] is no longer one of jehovah's .

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  Max Divergent

  I think Willyloman is right, but I'd like to add some speculation on the legal side of it as I think our freedoms are fairly safe if we're already faded away into the wind.

  The free exercise provision* only allows religionists to curtail the freedoms and rights of people within the religious community that they willingly joined (as the Judge said in Boer v WTS). It doesn?t mean a religion can reach out and harm people (by defamation, stalking or other unlawful harassment) who clearly aren't of their religion and don't consent to the rules of that religion, even if they once were and once did.

  So what? Well, I still remember a WT from around 1991 or so describing in gory detail the inherently demonic nature of people who are DF or DA (and now No Longer... NL?). So we know saying you're "DA/DF/NL" is a proxy for calling you "the son of the Devil" or similar or worse as published many times over many years.

  I think if we've clearly left the org some years ago** and don't by our actions consent to the religious rules of the JW's anymore, then they'd be putting themselves at risk of an action in slander WITHOUT RELIGIOUS FREEDOM PROTECTION if they made a DF/DA/NL announcement (and thus called you nasty, nasty names) after you've clearly left their religious community.

  The trick will come when they 'adjust' the procedure and meaning behind the NL process. They have smart people working on all this and they'll probably do a good job of it. But we need to remember our rights as free citizens of liberal democratic countries - they think they're liteally above Ceaser's law but they're wrong.

  Max

  * it doesn?t matter much if it's US or British originated law as the basic principle is universal in the western world.

  ** per the elders book of due WTS process, also an OKM of about 1975 defined 'some years' as 3 years
• 
  72

  High rates of depression in Org.

  by chuckyy in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  i noticed after being a jw for a while that many members of my congregation were having to take antedepressants.

  (i counted at least 30 out of 100).

  after a few years i too began to have bouts of depression and problems with anxiety.

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  Max Divergent

  steve2 - For some scientific evidence of higher rates of metal illness amongst JW's, see;

  Spencer, J. (1975)The Mental Health of Jehovah's WitnessesBritish Journal of Psychiatry 126:556-559.

  (Spener is a real scientist and, AFAIK, never been a JW)

  My copy is from the Journal, but online copies are readily available too... one source is: http://www.rickross.com/reference/jw/jw72.html
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  Report: "Ostracism: The cruel power of silence"

  by Max Divergent in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  thought some may be interested in this report on the effects on a person of being ostracised by friends, family and others.

  there's also a set of psychology papers from a conference on the same topic here: http://www.psy.mq.edu.au/staff/kip/announce/sssp04_drafts.html.

  regards, max .

• 

  Max Divergent

  Thought some may be interested in this report on the effects on a person of being ostracised by friends, family and others. There's also a set of psychology papers from a conference on the same topic here: http://www.psy.mq.edu.au/staff/kip/Announce/SSSP04_Drafts.html

  Regards, Max
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  31

  Do you think that the "U.N." will one day ban all religions?

  by JH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for many, religion is the root of terrorism and war.

  since the beggining of creation or evolution, mankind is at war not only for religious reasons, but economical ones too.

  oil is a good example.

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  Max Divergent

  Yah, but look at the rest of the world.

  S

  None of the western world outside the red states of the US has much in the way of organised religion actually changing the way people live (maybe there are pockets - Northern Ireland maybe...)... it's been defeated by the advancemets of the western world... hence spreading western though through the world in a way of ridding us of religion without banning it.
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  6

  Another atheist thread

  by Globetrotter in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  the "what kind of atheist are you" thread sparked a thought and i didn't want it lost, buried deep inside the thread, nor did i want to hijack the thread.

  so, my question is this... .

  if god does not exist, just exactly who/what is the god of the bible and how did he/it get elevated to such status?

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  Max Divergent

  I think the story of the bible is a manifestation of 'the struggle' that people have been obsessed about forever - Labour v KCapital; Freedom v Tyranny; "'Left' v 'Right'"; Ying v Yang; Progressive v Conservitive...

  Atheism (along with beards and blue jeans) are more likley to be associated with the progressive/liberal end of the world, the dead opposite to the arch-conservitive WTS.

  IOW, Satan the Liberal v Jehovah the Conservitve....

  Max - who now realises he must be a devil worshiper, not a liberal, bearded blue jean wearer
• 
  31

  Do you think that the "U.N." will one day ban all religions?

  by JH in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for many, religion is the root of terrorism and war.

  since the beggining of creation or evolution, mankind is at war not only for religious reasons, but economical ones too.

  oil is a good example.

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  Max Divergent

  They would do it gradually through propaganda, disinformation, information, introducing a secular knowledge/science/materialist religion, socialism, capitalism, professional debunkers, destruction of moral standards, teaching tolerance, ...

  Hey, that already happening, isn't it?

  Ummm... only in the blue states.... the advancements of western civilisation haven't got to the rest of the country yet.
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  105

  What kind of atheist are you?

  by Narkissos in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  chief rabbi leon ashkenazi said: "the difference between an atheist christian and an atheist jew is that an atheist christian does not believe that god exists, while an atheist jew believes that god does not exist.".

  i'm not so sure about the jewish-christian borderline, but i love the nuance.. so which sentence suits you better?.

  "i don't believe that god exists.".

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  Max Divergent

  I thought 'I don't believe in god' = agnostic and 'I beleive there's no god' = athiest. Probably the rabbi is saying Jews are more positive in their beliefs what those wishy-washy Christians.

  Judy Davis (a Catholic) played a cheating wife in a Woody Allen movie years ago (can't remember which one) and was playing the part as a guilt ridden adultress... Woody was getting madder and madder with Judy playing the part wrong, he had to explain to her that a cheating Jewess would be pleased and happy, not ashamed and coy... mmm... which religion is better for your mental health?

  In the JW context I'm athiest, in the broard 'spiritual' context I'm an agnostic who sometimes likes to think he's an athiest...
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  66

  OK, I HAVE to meet with the judicial committee. Advice?

  by AlmostAtheist in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hey guys,.

  " you say, "no you don't, you mind-controlled idiot.

  tell 'em to fark off.

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  Max Divergent

  Get real, it's her choice to visit the baby or not, there's nothing to stop her visiting DF fleshly family ... it's 'nessasary family business' for gwards sake...

  Trying to go thru all that to meet her death bed wish (your death bed) is unrealistic and silly... you're doing your thing, she can choose what she wants to do too...

  Could you just talk to the elders and try and make a deal? They make the baby bit easier for you, you save them the hassle of bogus appeals...
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  22

  India May Disclose ET Existence

  by metatron in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this is not the first time that this has been reported.

  i have thought it was possible that a non-christian nation might be the first.

  to disclose ufo reality.

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  Max Divergent

  If we had a court case to judge a mans innocence regarding murder and there were 400 high ranking and well respected witnesses that came forward to testify against him, he'd be convicted and dead fast.

  No, you're describing heresay evidence. No one can be (properly) convicted of anything on heresay evidence and noone should believe anything on heresay evidence alone either.

  At best, you can say 'Mmm... maybe somthing's going on here but without more evidence I can't really say what". That's where we're at with aliens, ghosts, & god.

  Max